This post has basically been shut down and the original text moved here.
Apologies for the inconvenience. Couldn't be helped. Stalker took over the whole comment thread, nothing to do with the post topic!
Apologies for the inconvenience. Couldn't be helped. Stalker took over the whole comment thread, nothing to do with the post topic!
Comments
Could we stop baiting each other?
I'm tired. And I'm worried about you. Girlfriend or not, you are still angry with me. I've never quite figured out what I did to set you off? Is this the person who called and talked and sang for THREE HOURS? The one who "crossed the Rubicon" and told me his name? The one who left such great comments on Better Than? What the hell happened to you, Joe? You are a vindictive bastard now.
I'm sorry, Joe Andros. Most sincerely. I guess I wanted to know why you did all the things you did. If you ever feel like telling the truth, I'll be around. I HAVE NEVER LIED TO YOU. Not once.
I would have sworn I knew you but I don't know the person you've become at all. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU?
I pray for you, Joe. Not to "saints". No intermediaries needed. But directly to my Father. I hope you find peace. I hope joy finds you.
I'm not angry with you except that you keep after me. There's some residual irritation from MONTHS OF THIS, but believe me, that goes away fast if you'd stop! The comments you keep submitting - reacting to posts that aren't remotely about you! The poem "She puts it all together" *is* about you. It describes the situation pretty well from my side. Truth, and some irritation. Not a whole huge lot of irritation, no big anger. I just wish it would stop.
You always say you haven't lied - but you tell monstrous lies about me, to yourself, and then you hate me and wish "1000 hideous deaths" upon me for not backing up your lies. You lie about what I felt, about what I was doing - and now you hate me because...why? Because you see it was never true? Or because you think it used to be true and I changed my mind?
There's been no changes on my end. No post on this blog has EVER been posted with any of the following intents:
1. To communicate to you a message of romantic love
2. To encourage in you feelings of romantic love
3. To deceive you or anyone else in any way.
If you really want truth, there it is. Someday, go back through all my e-mails, back when I was a friend freaked out by where you were going, where I spent so much effort trying to convince you I am NOT in love with you, and I am not sending hints or messages - only to have you claim that just me spending that effort meant I am in love with you. Me spending effort to convince you - to get my friend back.
Jamie, I am not making any bones about this: I can't ever accept you as a friend now, because I'm sorry, but I will never believe anything you say about me now. I don't believe your post above. I don't believe you want the truth. You think I'm still following you're blog - I'm not. You think I either am in love with you or was. You think I was pursuing you by implication and indirect means. No to all of that, I'm not and I never was.
So there's me.
I pray directly to God too. When my prayers touch a saint, it's normally to thank the person, for something they wrote that inspired me. Like I would thank a person on earth for the same thing - if people in heaven aren't real people to you, they are to me. But in the older sense of the word, "pray" as plea, I make my plea directly to you - no intermediaries needed. I don't engage people through intermediaries. I don't engage people through imagined, hidden, cryptic blog post messages - I'm perfectly comfortable with direct address. My plea to you is please: stop telling yourself I ever tried to communicate special messages to you. Stop telling yourself I'm following your blog and responding to it here.
Here, on my blog, I talk about everything under the sun. I addressed you directly in two posts, plus one on APOP. None of the rest of it is meant to be about you or a response to you in any way. It is a little freaky when I get comments from you on posts that I still can't figure out what you think the connection is - and you're telling me it's about you, to stop talking about you!
You think I'm harassing you! With blog posts on any possible unrelated topic. As long as you keep putting this hypercreative interpretation on things Jamie, you'll have an easy time of keeping me the bad guy in your personal narrative. I just don't know why you want to do this to yourself. And I wish you'd stop bothering me with it.
But it's exasperation more than anything. You don't need to worry about me. If you'd just stop with believing these horrible things about me, and acting on that belief alone (in denial of everything I ever actually said or tried to say!) - I think we'd both be a lot better off.
You ask "WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU?" Nothing happened to me. I'm still here. Same guy I ever was. But you stopped interacting with me a long time ago. You preferred your fiction of me, to me. And the more I denied what you attributed to me, the more you railed against my "perversity."
I missed the "sang" there - at the risk of failing to come off as some kind of Bruce Springsteen, I only sang one song. And after the significance you put onto it, I wish I hadn't - because it really seemed to make things worse.
I'm sorry, but to me it was perfectly normal! I sing songs. I sing all the time in real life. A few of my friends are SICK of that song.
To you it was some kind of special evidence. I don't claim to be a particularly normal person, but for you it's as if all the ways I normally am in real life, all the ways I normally act, became evidence for you that I was pursuing you in some heightened way.
You kept listing evidence of how I must really feel toward you, saying "people don't"...don't waste hours on e-mails trying to talk somebody -then a friend - down from a delusion and back to what's real,...don't call someone on the phone and spend almost 3 hours just talking, just trying get a sense that the other person's OK, (and this was only after you said you BELIEVED ME, that I wasn't pursuing you, but that you'd had a hard time with it)...people don't sing a song to someone who is only a good friend.
Well, fuck those people who don't do that. It's not my problem what other people don't do. Me, I'll go very far and do my best, up to a certain point where I know nothing I can do will ever help.
I passed that point, as far as I can see I'm poison to your mind somehow. It's nothing I've done, it's just the way I am that you can't help but perceive a certain way. I tried and tried, and now I have embraced the permanent belief that me trying to be your friend can only be harmful. Decision done.
I passed that point months ago, when I asked you to stop contacting me at all.
I sent her back a 3 page 1000 word reply with a lot of dumb jokey banter about my towering intellect, reassurances that there's nothing intimidating about online people (WHOOPS), that those who deceive are the real morons, plus a funny story about St. Thomas Aquinas.
So yeah. I'm the same guy.
I type fast.
The conversations on blog and off were great, Joe. I thank you. Really.
And for my part: I'm sorry.
I'm sorry I lost someone's whose viewpoint I valued-on and off blog.
As to the truth: I guess it lies somewhere in the middle.
And the 1000 hideous deaths crack?? Considering it was followed by "YOU CRACK ME UP", it's hard to believe it carried any harmful intent! Funny how you only choose what suits YOUR purpose. But I always said you were glib & facile.
And lest we forget...we ended that phone conversation with "I love you" which wasn't wise looking back, you're right. We never even knew each other, did we?
I ADORED THE WORDS. Thanks.
Jamie, I appreciate the reassuring tone. In fact, I am reassured.
But as to the truth being "somewhere in the middle" - ??? no it wasn't. You accused me of things I wasn't doing at all. I wasn't pursuing you a little. I wasn't pursuing you half-way. I never pursued you at all. I was never in love with you. I never wanted you to be in love with me. I never tried to use my blog to send you hidden messages. 100% never.
I did think you were my friend. I cared for you and cared what you thought. I believed in your honesty, up until you started telling me how I felt - things totally untrue, and really pretty insulting to me! I was shocked when you remade me into this weird figure in your mind, started coming after me like that. And when you claimed I was coming after you. I tried my best to get you to realize I was doing nothing of the kind - and honestly, my best wasn't always pleasant. Your accusations freaked me out and disturbed me. I can't conceive of myself as someone who would pursue someone and lie about it - you couldn't conceive me any other way. I didn't deserve it. I didn't deserve your total disregard of everything I said to contradict it.
I love my enemies, or I would if I had any. I certainly love all my friends. All that time I kept wishing I could get you to realize the truth, and then be friends again - I didn't see then how impossible that was. I give up on a friend only very reluctantly. But you have no idea how revolting the person you claimed I was is to me, how revolting it is to me that you'd want the lying scumbag you accused me of being.
The truth is not somewhere in the middle. All you did was insult me and call me a liar on those points, all I did was try to get you to stop believing in your bizarre lie.
That's the truth. And no I haven't been following your blog and responding with mine. Anyone looking for coincidences on a random nonsense factory such as this blog is, doesn't have to wait long for me to post something that could possibly be construed as relating to some aspect of their life.
I do wish you health and a happy life and nothing ill. I never hated you, I just wished you would stop coming after me.
Jamie, you didn't deserve to be treated how your fake, imaginary scumbag version of me treated you. But Jamie - I was never that guy. I never deserved to be accused of that. For months I fought you to make you see that. No use.
I'm sorry to have been the focus of all this. Please let's just quit bothering each other.
I NEVER thought you "loved" me. I think you "fucked" me over. There's a rather large difference. I think you like innuendo and insinuation so that when someone questions you, you can scream "I've been false accused!" Why else would you have told me months ago "Subtle fun is the best kind." Why else would you talk to Anna about changing oil and mention all that UNSCREWING or Magna or whoever it was and throw out aureole?? You like to play but not to get called on it. Kind of like the guy in the office or wherever who touches you inappropriately and then denies it when you finally confront him. That is SICK. That is RAPE. You have called me sick for months yet we are STILL having the SAME conversation. Why converse with a mentally unstable person, Joe? For my part, I just wanted to catch you in a lie. Which I did a couple weeks ago. Then you went ballistic and deleted all your comments from Better Than. Mature that. Rather like when you SWORE me to secrecy on Path To Sin's lyrics then published them when you got angry. You who on this blog talk about NOT SHARING your song lyrics with people. But, HEY, you also write poetry to your TRUE LOVE which compares her to a blue popsicle, a conversation you and I had several times. And as for a couple weeks ago, YOU DID MIRROR my writing. IT WAS NO COINCIDENCE. I may be too trusting but I'm not stupid. You're still posting about many things we talked about, Joe, As if you're still continuing the conversation. If you haven't changed why did Julie drop you??
And why did my WORK email account suddenly start getting EXPLICIT emails dealing with an issue ONLY YOU could know anything about?!? Remember doceelinge and why you set up the account? You told me the story. It was to play with a "girlfriend" of yours.
And calling my bluff by posting the comment containing your full name didn't impress me. Who really gives a shit if you are JOE ANDROS of the BRIGANTINE, NJ Andros family? So what? You and your freaky boundaries. Get over yourself already. Jeesh.
You also do not have to copy my comments into your replies. I have no intention of deleting my comments. I'm not ashamed. And I'm no blog terrorist to sneak in like a damn child and erase what I've said. GROW UP. ICK. But you are emotionally retarded and that is what this is about, isn't it? I thought we were friends and really I was just your stupid target.
I have WANTED to find some point of reconciliation. I have wanted to BELIEVE I misunderstood. I have wanted to somehow make myself TRUST you. I'm the fool here.
I'm heading out for mimosas and brunch on the waterfront with friends. I can't believe you & I are STILL having this conversation! WHY???
I can't wait to see you in heaven. At least then the TRUTH will be known.
You've never caught me in any lie because I haven't lied. The last time I recall you prancing about saying you had caught me in a lie, it had something to do with somebody back East looking at your blog, right? And you claiming it was at my behest? And something about the timing, because they started looking before your latest posted comment. As if they couldn't have clicked on you from any comment you had, strewn all over here? You know, you were a pretty obvious presence. People do read back posts, and click around.
So anyway, I deleted your comments here, because you kept accusing me of sending people your way to click on your page views. But first I deleted my comments at your place, because you continued to say I was communing with you - it was an absolute must that I withdraw my entire support from that delusion - I had no idea the whole thing was a bad-faith ruse on your part to catch me in a lie. I thought you were serious! And over on your blog, too, there were posts you made with my name in them, long after I'd stopped posting, where you said things about me and put me forth as...as if I were not in fear of you. As if I were a big spiritual companion of yours. Was that just a lie to your readership, on the off-chance I'd come across it?
It doesn't make sense.
But anyway, I'm glad now. I don't get the idea behind the ruse, except that you wanted to play me, but it seems less crazy than you saying you kept after me (despite the scumbag you made me out as), because you "forgave" me or "graced" me, for pursuing you and lying about it.
Wow, I know you maybe were trying to be mean? But I feel so much better about the whole thing now. Thank you.
According to you, I am "fucking over" everyone I talk to. You do know Magna's a dude, right?
Nobody has to work too hard to catch me in an innuendo, Jamie. Not even necessarily sexual - I throw in the kitchen sink at all times as a matter of course. Subtle fun IS the best kind. I have tons of fun with the language. A lot of people have fun right back. It is good clean fun. But if all you're doing is trying to read dirty meanings into everything, well boy are you missing the point.
Julie dropped my listing because I asked her to. Don't worry, I didn't mention you. I have tried my best not to mess with your world.
I certainly didn't put you on any spam list - I have no idea how to go about that, and I'm not inclined to mess with you - I want you to GO AWAY, remember? You want to reconcile. Sorry, not with the person who just admitted she's only been pursuing me, sending me e-mails saying "I love you, Joe Andros" - but you now admit that you KNEW I wasn't pursuing you, you were keeping after me not because you thought I loved you, you kept after me months after I begged you to stop because you want to "catch me in a lie."
Wow. How noble and self-sacrificing of you.
Jamie, you make way too much of everything. I'm "continuing our conversations"? On what, theology? Popcorn? Peaches - God, the peaches - I can't bring up peaches without being accused by you of cybercunnilingus, how disgusting. I LOVE PEACHES - THE ACTUAL FRUIT.
I talk to the whole wide world about popsicles - especially since last summer when the ice cream truck started buzzing my workplace. I love popsicles.
I'm going to continue talking about all the ideas that occupy my mind, since long before you came along. I can't help if some of the topics were also discussed by us. I'm not continuing "our" conversation.
I posted the lyrics to that song because you relapsed again into your delusion of me (or was it already feigned?) and since I couldn't take it back, making it public was a second-best solution (although, I've posted other lyrics, before and since).
My girlfriend was IN ON THE JOKE after the 3rd joke spam I sent her - these were hilarious and hand-crafted spams, ok? She would ask me when the next one was coming sometimes. It was fun and innocent and nothing you'd know a thing about. I've told everyone who asks what my e-mail means that story - the account I told you was a copy-paste from a Draft in Blogger! A few people had asked, and I was going to just post it. But it ended up seeming less interesting without the actual spams, which I considered private between me and her.
And you did and do delete comments. The first comment I posted from you in months, I replied to it, you deleted it - and said I was only trying to humiliate you by posting it. DON'T SUBMIT IT THEN.
I don't think there's a lot of point in continuing this. I told you months ago to stop e-mailing me, not to contact me in any way. You sit there with a fake bewildered look on your face saying "why are we still in this conversation?"
Well, one of us is trying to get out of it. The other is interpreting tea leaves, page views, and posts on birdwatching to convince herself that I'm still attempting to commune with (excuse me, "fuck with") her.
I think that's about it. Your first post says you never lied to me. Your last post says you were lying all along, with the lofty goal of trying to catch me in a lie.
It was a mistake for me to post these and try to reply. I'll leave them here, (we'll see if you do) but no more comments will be posted. Please just leave me alone.
>I think you like innuendo and insinuation so that when someone questions you, you can scream "I've been false accused!"
Far as I know, you're the only person who has ever accused me of anything bad or wrong in this area, and no I don't like it - I get no charge whatsoever from it. I'm very up front when questioned, and I'm honest about whatever I've said. If I look back and see suggestive language I'll say: "why yes, it is rather suggestive isn't it?" - even if I meant nothing by it. So what? And sometimes I am quite deliberately ribald, with the whole world. So what?
Kind of hypocritical to call me a rapist over a lot of puns and linguistic silliness. You can't be such a prude as all that, considering the overt sexual Jesus imagery in several posts on your on blog. I won't cite examples, and the concept itself is biblically justified. But the terms in which you couch it ("Jesus is HOT FOR HIS BRIDE") are far randier than my infamous peach post:
(for context, this was posted as a public comment on a public post on her blog, where she meditated on peaches over the edenic apple as a blessed vs. a forbidden fruit, or some similar such)
dogimo said:
Some peachy thoughts:
Perhaps the peach from heaven is the fruit to symbolize the undoesness of the forbidden bite and crunch from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Yet if so, the peach is far from innocent. The peach is the fruit of sweet complicity! The flesh and juice conspire with the tongue as the fuzzed skin parts and the teeth sink in. The apple never knows it is being bitten. The peach, on the other hand, revels in it!!
Visualize World Peach.
First: "TEETH SINK IN"? This is clearly very sensual language, but it does not depict oral sex, it depicts the consummation devoutly wished by all hand fruits: to be bitten into. The fruit here is being anthropomorphized, yes. But the specific imagery would be rather more cannibalistic than cunnilingual, if misapplied to mean oral sex.
On the basis of this comment, I was repeatedly accused of cybering or whatever "HER PEACH." First jokingly (she said). Then insistently, matter of fact. Then vindictively in a "you started it" way. Every time I protested, even once early on in her peach obsession e-mailing her the whole comment and explaining that it wasn't meant that way (which is why I even have a copy still).
This is what I'm dealing with. This level of single-minded interpretation. I haven't even mentioned the absolutely blatant stuff she threw at me.
Correction: that is what I was dealing with.
Done.
My flirtation and infatuation is with the English language. It's OBVIOUSLY SILLY, on one level, but it also really isn't: I'm as assiduous as a man can be about working the mother tongue for all its worth. I love all sorts of fun with language. There isn't a particular or prurient focus on the sexual - but that's there too, and there isn't a thing offensive about it! Gawd. Look at how ridiculous it is, the way I put it! That's supposed to be a serious attempt to trick somebody into thinking something about the way I feel towards them?
Nobody can say I'm leading anyone on by the way I naturally express myself and take joy in the language.
You're not even a GOOD liar anymore either! Dang, dog!
You "supposedly" stopped reading Better Than back in MAY! I threw out your name along with OTHERS in one post using BEER as a hook and then referenced a quote from you at the end of JUNE! How would you EVEN KNOW THAT, Joe??
As to spiritual companion?!? Oh, PLEASE! You were an interesting ADVERSARY...I referred to you as such.
I do have things I wonder about:
Did you wash & dry the dang sheets this time? After all, TRUE LOVE seems to overtake you SO QUICKLY.
If S. was TRUE LOVE, YOUR WORDS, and C. was rebound, what is this...lust? Your poetry sounds that way. WOW! It's been not quite a year and yet you've already found LOVE again. I may not have perfection but I've got 25 years of a relationship!
And WHY would you ask Julie to remove you? After three years? I don't care what you told her. HA! I couldn't give a FLIP.
Back to peaches, Joe? Funny thing. You made your poetry blog public because of me. Remember? And I would never have questioned your comments except for your poetry. Weird.
When I met you last August, you had 700 profile hits. Look at you now. You went HUNTING for people. YUCK! You were hurting back then but at least you seemed normal. Somewhere along the line, you dropped the facade.
And for the billionth time: I NEVER LIED TO YOU!! NOT ONCE! You are delusional if you think differently. I DO NOT LIE.
And you know your MOM doesn't read this or you lied about that TOO. And your new friends don't care enough about you to care either. So, what audience are you SPEAKING to? It's just us here, Joe.
Noticed you skipped over the "I love you" bit. I KNOW...it's embarrassing, isn't it???
Still waiting for you to regain your sanity.
Still waiting for The Scientificus.
Still hoping the Joe I knew is in there somewhere.
Like I described: I saw your posts with my name in them when I came back to delete. I googled for all instances of "dogimo" on your site (for the comments), and there were these new posts - impossible not to find.
As an adversary, you're a waste of time. Glad I found out that was all it was. Get thee behind me, please.
Sheets. How drolly revolting.
Not that it's any business of yours, but I've known my sweetie more than 3 times as long as I've known you.
You don't care what I told Julie. Right after you ask "WHY would you ask Julie to remove you?" OK.
I made my poetry blog public after you reminded me it was there, yes. And I gave it a good look and I said, "there's nothing here really that bad. I don't need to worry about anybody misinterpreting this do I?" But maybe I really should have thought a little harder about who was asking to see it.
It's weird you keep such obsessive records of my profile hits. And...how disappointing. I just checked, since you mentioned it like it was something to mention. I only have 2,000! I thought maybe I was racking them up or something. But I can't be that broken up about it. Last time I recall looking at the counter, I was at around 65.
Jamie, you say you never lied. Well. You've been e-mailing me telling me I'm trying to seduce you through my blog. You've been e-mailing me saying how much you love me, and many blatantly sexual things. You have been e-mailing me saying you felt for a two-week period this July that we had reached a mutual communication and understanding with each other (via blog hints) that helped you feel less alone. But! Now you state that you NEVER thought I loved you, and were in fact only continuing to hound me because you "just wanted to catch [ me ] in a lie." And all during that time, as you laid your sneak trap or whatever, e-mails saying you love me. So yes: you either lied, actually, you lied no matter what! But if you truly never believed I loved you than you have got to be pretty sick to pursue me for 6 months, claiming I was wooing you, and you knew I didn't love you (???). Why pursue such a rank cad as that? What despicable behavior on your part, to pursue that.
And in reality, from my end: what despicable behavior on your part - to claim that disgusting thing you grew for yourself in your mind was me.
As to my mom, last time I went back East, I found (to my initial dismay) that my blog had become far more widely read than I'd been aware. But everybody seemed to like it, if not endorse it. So I'm cool with it now.
I didn't skip the "I love you" part. I said quite directly: I love all my friends. I'm pretty sure - I don't keep obsessive track, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a friend I have who I have not said "I love you" to - male or female. I'm sorry if that cheapens the fantasy for you.
My sanity is quite keen.
The Scientificus needs work.
Based on what your description of him, I never met the Joe you knew.
Crap...I CANNOT TYPE! URGH.
Typed a nice reply and then promptly lost it.
I was worried about Jul because the pregnancy has been hard, emotionally & physically and I didn't want your request to hurt her.
As to the rest: I remember when you were hurting and I have worried for you beyond what was good for me. I think you probably would say the same.
Thank you for the fun, the wisdom, and all the conversation, Joe. I truly liked you.
Please choose a woman of faith. I know you say it doesn't matter to you but that is where you're missing it. You are deeply spiritual and you need to have that connection with someone MORE THAN ANY OTHER.
Enjoy your hike in the Sierras. Ryan & Reagan are planning a trip out there. Should be a memorable adventure.
And this isn't the first time you've struck a seemingly conciliatory tone, only to come back as full of impossible, scary confidence in our bond and our future as ever. Don't worry about me, just believe me. I am not the person you paint me as, and if you keep believing I am that creep, then your imaginary me is going to keep doing the same kinds of things that you've been seeing - because I'm going to keep on not doing them. You're going to keep seeing the same kinds of coincidences and blowing them up into the same kinds of meanings.
I haven't been communicating with you. There's no bond. I haven't been following your blog and answering back. You saw the last times I came by - once when I was back in Jersey, because you said you were being harassed on your blog (I didn't understand what you meant by page views) and you immediately jumped on me for checking in. The next time I saw your blog was the last time (when I pulled my comments). As soon as I arrived you immediately e-mailed me in triumph and thanked me for inspiring you.
But all the other things that inspired you weren't me. My posts are just posts, not code to unravel. This is not an autobiographical blog, particularly. I'm not going to the Sierras this year. That was just an old draft that I found and thought amusing - "why didn't I ever post that before?" So I posted it. I have almost as many drafts as posts! And probably waiting in those drafts are some things I may have said to you, and said "wow, that sums up how I feel perfectly! Clip and save, expand on later." If I post something, it's because I think it's neat or expresses something well. My reason for posting it has nothing to do with what part of my life it came from. I don't even know, most of these drafts, what they were originally from.
I've explained all that in the past. I've even blogged about my shameless re-use of material from other sources.
I'm just repeating it, I don't know. Will it do any good? But I have been on the level with you, as to the purpose of this whole dumb blog thing. It's writing practice. Anything you see on here is just me having fun with the language. I am not the slightest bit interested in fucking with people. How weird and boring that idea is. Where's the charge there? Where's the feeling of accomplishment?
I'm sorry it kept seeming otherwise to you, but you know damn well I fought you every step of the way in this interpretation of yours.
I hope you're going to be OK. I don't mean to pile on in any of this, I am just desperate to get across to you that this idea of me you have - which I think you still have! - I'm not in on it. I'm really not.
Sorry...honest misinterp on the hike.
You and I both know some is true; we talked about boo-hooing in the liquor store.
Joe, at some point honest coincidence becomes obvious truth. How could it NOT have been you? The scales just tipped too far. I only accepted what everyone had said was obvious all along. You played me or so it appears. SORRY. Mea culpa.
Here is the crazy, insane part for me. Knowing you are NOT who I thought, I still miss the conversations...even though we were both prickly as heck when we disagreed. I don't think you're evil. I'm not. Nor are we mentally unstable.
Joe, I believe that things happen for a reason. We were there for each other for a time. That works for me.
Now...even though we've lost faith in each other...I still think I value your opinion and you did value mine. If we can spend the last few days slinging accusations, why can't we ever discuss the things that enriched us? See, that is grace to me. You know I'm a BITCH, I know you have a temper; we move on.
For example: Possession was an EXCELLENT read. Did you get the chance to read Jayber Crow?
Or: Please explain praying to saints. I don't understand why I need more pull with God. I'm His CHILD.
Or: What makes two relatively sane people keep trying to carve out a weird friendship? We have nothing in common...but somehow we're STILL TALKING.
That is forgiveness. That is how I choose to live.
I know you're going to shoot me down. That's OK. It won't be the first time. And even though I HAVE SAID HIDEOUS things, I do regret them. That isn't who I am. I'm not what you've said either, though.
I'm just me. I get emails from all over from people pouring out their hearts. I know more than I want about most and I hurt and worry for them. I send money...go ahead, snort in disbelief. That's just what I do. I try to help. I try to encourage. I try to point to Christ. I try and I SCREW UP ROYALLY. So, I grace myself along with others. That's just how I do it, Joe.
I know we'll never be the friends we were. Things change. I don't need to comment on Consider or need you on Better Than. Although, you are missed. I hate that you deleted your comments. They were for someone to stumble across some day, you know? Someone who might have needed to read us hammering things out. A lot of people were blessed by those conversations. They wrote to tell me. You & I could disagree and care enough to keep the dialogue going until we at least came to some semblance of accord. We never backed down and we never gave up. That was good, Joe. That is what we all need to learn to do with each other.
If I lose this, I'm going to SCREAM!
Grace, dog.
Jamie, I'm sorry. You're just going to have to scream. It's lost. I cannot believe in you, I don't even really think you believe I wasn't behind these coincidences of yours, even now. I can't control future coincidences you'll see, and I know you will believe what you see over me.
You have to understand that after all these accusations, all how you made me this machiavellian manipulator, all how you keep coming after me and will not stop - there's no way for me to ever interact with you in a normal way, or be comfortable.
I'm sorry if you can't understand that.
I don't need you to grace me, Jamie, any more than you need saints. The people in heaven are people to me. But ultimately, nobody needs people, to get to God. They do help, enormously! But you and I can't help each other now. For me, too much damage done for it to ever be good or normal. I forgive you, but you're forgiven already anyway and you don't need me for that.
I just don't want your voice any more. I can't hear it without thinking of how much you never once believed I was honest.
I meant the post. LOL
Methinks you think too highly of yourself, dog.
Funny...you'll spend time wasting time on me when we could just shrug and move on.
You once told me you don't trust your business contacts but you still do business with them. I don't have to trust you to think you're bright & funny. You amuse me. I told you that in my very first comment. Nothing has changed.
I don't have to be someone's "friend" to learn from them. Or agree with everything they think. How else does one READ someone else's words? I did want to be your friend but that isn't a prerequisite to conversation. OBVIOUSLY.
Gracing is for YOUR benefit as much as the other person's, Joe. You extend what you've been given. Do you still not get that?
And OF COURSE the people in heaven are REAL. Good grief. But how do they help me "get to God"? Jesus is my intercessor...no one else. If you mean their written words, yes, I agree. But if you mean they have God's ear...I don't see that.
Ummm, I'm sorry to point this out but we seem to be conversing despite your comfort level.
Joe, if I thought you were lying and you thought I was psycho and we were both wrong, where do we go from there?
And I do appreciate you talking this out. Seriously. This is who I thought you were.
There's nothing funny about it. I tried to "shrug and move on" and you kept after me with I love you e-mails that I didn't want, among far less pleasant things you sent.
Jamie, again your implication that me being civil means something more than just...me being civil. Sorry, it does not. I'm not interested in doing business unless I am being very well paid for it. I don't care to bandy insights with someone who makes me uncomfortable. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be cruel either, and I'm glad you appreciate me talking this out. But I am talking it out: Exit. Exeunt.
I am out. I was only talking to you just now to get you to understand and believe that I want no further interaction. That I haven't been blogging at you. I think this last exchange has done some good in that area. Thank you for listening and for coming through calm, towards the start and the end of it.
But - especially since you're now insinuating, as you always have, that me just trying to make you see equals me having some kind of vested interest in talking to you - on that note, I think we've come full circle and can stop.
So that's it then. I've talked it out. Let's leave it at that. I don't wish to fuel your belief that I care about you now. Me continuing would only do that. Let's just leave it at that. Can we please leave it at that?
Will you please stop contacting me? Please? Will you please?
Pax out.